What a weekend! Lots of yummy food and good company, but full of doggie stress. We had not one, but two incidents!
My family came over for Thanksgiving. The family was nice. All of the food was super yummy. Thank you to my lovely, non-stressed cook, Yun! I especially liked the stuffing, mashed potatoes, and gravy. The dogs got some scraps of turkey from the table. We were all very happy on Turkey Day!
Incident Number One: Loki bit my sister.
So, maybe this is going to sound bad, like I'm a terrible owner or person, but I'm not the least bit sorry that Loki bit my sister. For years (or as long as we've had Loki), I've been warning her to be careful with him, and she never listens to me. She had always carried around this idea that she's special, that Loki won't bite her because he loves her, that Loki has never bitten her before, so she doesn't need to be careful. To be fair, he does love her. She's great with him. She gives him lots of doting attention. But she also discards our warnings, even after I've told her about how he's bitten us in the past. Somehow it didn't matter to her that he's bitten us before, because in her mind she was special.
So what happened? Loki was sleeping in the corner while our family was playing Scrabble. When it was not her turn to play, my sister went over to the sleeping Loki and tried to pet him with her foot. Now, I don't know about you, but a big giant foot hovering over me while I'm sleeping seems pretty threatening. Sure you could do that to Jujube, and she wouldn't care. But definitely not Loki. He bit her foot.
No one was upset over it. I think Loki was a bit stressed, but we all left him alone. It wasn't his fault. I hope next time my sister will heed my warnings.
Incident Number Two. The dogs got into a fight.
This fight was over rawhide. They have both amicably eaten rawhide together many times before, so we were not supervising them particularly closely. Jujube finished hers first, and we think that she must have went for Loki's. No one was there when it started, so we can only guess as to what happened. I asked Yun, "Why do you think Juju that actually went for his rawhide? I mean, she could have just gotten too close to him as he was eating?"
His reply, "Because after I broke up the fight, she picked up his rawhide." (Of course, Yun took it away from her.)
The scene looked worse than it was. We had blood splattered over Loki and on the carpet. But where was it coming from? This question took a very long time to figure out. The fact that it took us so long to figure out where it was coming from goes to show how small the cut was. We must have looked Jujube over three times before Yun noticed that it was her nose. Actually, it was the area where the side of her nose meets her furry face. We cleaned it up and Yun applied a little bit of pressure there to stop the bleeding. It stopped shortly. Without the blood, you can't even tell that she was hurt at all.
Trying to assess Loki was a much bigger ordeal. We had to first muzzle him. Then one of us held him down while the other looked him over. He was not a happy camper. We cleaned off the blood on his fur, and tried to figure out if he was hurt. Nope, not hurt! It was just Juju's blood on his fur.
In a matter of hours, I went from "OMG, we have to go to the emergency vet!" to "Oh, you know, I don't think we need to go to the vet at all." Today I called the vet to ask about the risk of infection. They told me to just keep my eye out for any signs of infection, such as puss or swelling. If there are signs, then bring Juju in. If not, then don't worry.
The dogs were mostly back to normal within an hour. I fed them dinner together as I always do. They were fine and mostly acting normally. Dogs are resilient. Juju's extremely resilient. Loki's less resilient than Juju, but I can't imagine anything or anyone being as resilient than Juju. We left Loki alone for the rest of the night. We didn't want to add anything else to his stress level. If the fight didn't traumatize him, the body assessment with muzzle definitely did.
Although we still think Loki is alpha (and still support him in that role), Juju going after his rawhide seems like an alpha thing to do. Don't you think? I actually don't think that she will contend him for alpha status; I think that she's just an opportunist. If Loki left his rawhide unguarded for a second, she'd go for it.
Lesson learned: Supervise very carefully when giving rawhides.
Our last dog fight was in July. This one's at the end of November. And the behaviorist came back in May. It's not a bad track record. It's not perfect, but it definitely shows improvement.
Showing posts with label aggression. Show all posts
Showing posts with label aggression. Show all posts
Thoughts on redirected aggression
One type of aggression in dogs that is often misunderstood and puzzling is redirected aggression. This occurs when a dog redirects his aggression from one source to another. We see this during our leashed walks when Loki barks and lunges at certain neighboring dogs. Because he is unable to reach that dog, he redirects his aggression to Jujube. Fortunately, he doesn’t bite her, but he does lunge and bark in her face. She puts up with it and doesn’t react.
I can’t say that I know much about how to deal with it other than managing each occurrence individually. Since the two of them are both on leash, it’s not terribly difficult to hold them back. Then, I just keep moving forward to try to get his attention on something else. I don’t linger around the source of his aggression. I hope this approach is good enough, because I’m not quite sure what to do if his behavior became more severe.
Although it seems like an odd sort of behavior, I can’t help but to relate it to humans. Humans display redirected aggression all the time. This is what happens when one person “takes it out” on another. After suffering from a bad day at work, some adults come home and take it out on their family members. It can range from just being snappier to being abusive. Interesting parallel, isn’t it?
I can’t say that I know much about how to deal with it other than managing each occurrence individually. Since the two of them are both on leash, it’s not terribly difficult to hold them back. Then, I just keep moving forward to try to get his attention on something else. I don’t linger around the source of his aggression. I hope this approach is good enough, because I’m not quite sure what to do if his behavior became more severe.
Although it seems like an odd sort of behavior, I can’t help but to relate it to humans. Humans display redirected aggression all the time. This is what happens when one person “takes it out” on another. After suffering from a bad day at work, some adults come home and take it out on their family members. It can range from just being snappier to being abusive. Interesting parallel, isn’t it?
The behaviorist on the terrible, bad day
Last night we finally got to talk to our behaviorist. I have to say, I’m so glad that we have one and I’m even more glad that she is good. After Yun described to her what happened on our terrible, bad day, she asked more questions. I find that to be one of the best things about her. She really tries to get a full picture of what happened. She takes the time to learn about the situation and circumstances before diving into an opinion.
Prior to the seemingly very random bite, Loki and Jujube were playing. He was trying to get her to chase him, but became annoyed when she caught him and snapped back at her. Then apparently, this repeated a few times. Loki kept asking for more play, but was agitated by her at the same time.
I know I may be anthropomorphic here, but I sort of imagine a child who really wants to play, has only one playmate, and gets annoyed when the playmate doesn’t understand the rules of play. Like trying to get someone to play tag with you. You chase your friend and finally catch him. “Tag, you’re it.” Now it’s his turn to chase you. But instead, he’s confused and doesn’t chase you. Now, you get annoyed because he’s not playing the way you had wanted to play. Repeat a few times and now you’re really frustrated. You might still want to play, but at the same time be very agitated.
So the point is, the behaviorist thought that Loki might have still been in an agitated and unstable state when Yun went to pet him. We already know that he’s not the most stable dog. And he and Jujube did have a scuffle in the morning, so that may also have contributed to his unstable mood.
Still, she mentioned that we may never fully know why Loki did what he did. He’s a dog, and we are humans. We can make the best educated guesses possible, but we may never know for sure why dogs do what they do.
In addition, she encouraged us to be even more obvious in our preferential treatment of Loki. At the moment, we still feed the dogs at the same time, and that morning Yun was about to give them rawhides at the same time. She suggested that our actions be further exaggerated in very deliberately showing Loki that he gets food first and that he gets rawhide first. We already did other things to show Loki that he’s top dog, like letting him out of his crate first, but she suggested we do more. She said that the more obvious we are to assure Loki of his top dog status, the more secure and stable he would become.
Lastly, she said that she considers this an isolated incident. One incident after about two months of peace isn’t terrible. She said if this were occurring every week, then we’d be having a different conversation.
Prior to the seemingly very random bite, Loki and Jujube were playing. He was trying to get her to chase him, but became annoyed when she caught him and snapped back at her. Then apparently, this repeated a few times. Loki kept asking for more play, but was agitated by her at the same time.
I know I may be anthropomorphic here, but I sort of imagine a child who really wants to play, has only one playmate, and gets annoyed when the playmate doesn’t understand the rules of play. Like trying to get someone to play tag with you. You chase your friend and finally catch him. “Tag, you’re it.” Now it’s his turn to chase you. But instead, he’s confused and doesn’t chase you. Now, you get annoyed because he’s not playing the way you had wanted to play. Repeat a few times and now you’re really frustrated. You might still want to play, but at the same time be very agitated.
So the point is, the behaviorist thought that Loki might have still been in an agitated and unstable state when Yun went to pet him. We already know that he’s not the most stable dog. And he and Jujube did have a scuffle in the morning, so that may also have contributed to his unstable mood.
Still, she mentioned that we may never fully know why Loki did what he did. He’s a dog, and we are humans. We can make the best educated guesses possible, but we may never know for sure why dogs do what they do.
In addition, she encouraged us to be even more obvious in our preferential treatment of Loki. At the moment, we still feed the dogs at the same time, and that morning Yun was about to give them rawhides at the same time. She suggested that our actions be further exaggerated in very deliberately showing Loki that he gets food first and that he gets rawhide first. We already did other things to show Loki that he’s top dog, like letting him out of his crate first, but she suggested we do more. She said that the more obvious we are to assure Loki of his top dog status, the more secure and stable he would become.
Lastly, she said that she considers this an isolated incident. One incident after about two months of peace isn’t terrible. She said if this were occurring every week, then we’d be having a different conversation.
A bad, terrible day
Since we consulted with the dog behaviorist back in May, we hadn't had any fights, bites, or other incidents. But unfortunately, our run of good luck ran out on Monday. We had both a dog fight and a bite. I wasn't present for either situation. In the morning, Yun put the dogs out in the backyard, and as he put it, both dogs wanted to sit by the door. Then Yun was going to give them rawhides, but they got into a fight even before he gave them any rawhides.
Boo...
After Yun called to tell me about the dog fight, I called our behaviorist. Unfortunately, she must be on vacation. Her voice mail message said that she was out until next week.
More boo...
Lastly, after Yun got home from work, the dogs seemed perfectly fine and calm. They were playing with each other and generally happy. Yun was petting Loki on the head, just like usual, and then all of a sudden with no warning at all whatsoever, Loki bit him. We don't know why. It was extremely upsetting, especially because there was no warning.
Most-est boo...
Boo...
After Yun called to tell me about the dog fight, I called our behaviorist. Unfortunately, she must be on vacation. Her voice mail message said that she was out until next week.
More boo...
Lastly, after Yun got home from work, the dogs seemed perfectly fine and calm. They were playing with each other and generally happy. Yun was petting Loki on the head, just like usual, and then all of a sudden with no warning at all whatsoever, Loki bit him. We don't know why. It was extremely upsetting, especially because there was no warning.
Most-est boo...
Find someone else to trim nails
One of the big revelations from our consultation with the dog behaviorist is that Loki has fear-based aggression with handling. In particular, she explained to us that it was not dominance aggression.
In addition to slow desensitization with positive reinforcement, the dog behaviorist also told us to find someone else to trim Loki’s nails. Because he’s aggressive during nail trims, we’ve always done it ourselves by putting a muzzle on him. We didn’t want to subject anyone to the possibility of being bit.
But the dog behaviorist recommended that we no longer do Loki’s nail trims for the time being and find someone else, either a professional groomer or the vet.
Why?
Because Loki perceives the ordeal as an attack and that breaks down his trust in us. He doesn’t trust us 100% to handle him. And doing his nails could undermine all of our other handling work (collar grabs, picking him up, handling his tail, handling his feet, and touching his teeth, brushing, etc.). For me, this sort of resolves the mystery of what I felt was his unpredictable nature. That 97% of the time, Loki would be okay with me taking his martingale collar off, and then randomly 3% of the time, he would be snarly. Even with all of the positive associations I provide with the collar, he might not trust me 100%. Perhaps his trust in us is only 97%, because 3% of the time we randomly “attack” him with the nail clippers. Even if we never actually hurt him, he still perceives it to be an attack.
This is supposed to be just a short-term solution. In the meanwhile, the behaviorist recommended that I slowly desensitize Loki to nail trims. Yikkes! I’ve tried that before without success. The behaviorist tried to encourage me, saying that Loki’s tolerance might be greater now than before. Personally, I’m not convinced. Aren’t things like that supposed to be easier when they are pups? Why in the world would it be easier when he’s older? I’m ready to find a professional to do Loki’s nails as a permanent solution, rather than a temporary one.
In addition to slow desensitization with positive reinforcement, the dog behaviorist also told us to find someone else to trim Loki’s nails. Because he’s aggressive during nail trims, we’ve always done it ourselves by putting a muzzle on him. We didn’t want to subject anyone to the possibility of being bit.
But the dog behaviorist recommended that we no longer do Loki’s nail trims for the time being and find someone else, either a professional groomer or the vet.
Why?
Because Loki perceives the ordeal as an attack and that breaks down his trust in us. He doesn’t trust us 100% to handle him. And doing his nails could undermine all of our other handling work (collar grabs, picking him up, handling his tail, handling his feet, and touching his teeth, brushing, etc.). For me, this sort of resolves the mystery of what I felt was his unpredictable nature. That 97% of the time, Loki would be okay with me taking his martingale collar off, and then randomly 3% of the time, he would be snarly. Even with all of the positive associations I provide with the collar, he might not trust me 100%. Perhaps his trust in us is only 97%, because 3% of the time we randomly “attack” him with the nail clippers. Even if we never actually hurt him, he still perceives it to be an attack.
"So… doesn’t that mean he’ll learn to not trust the vet or the groomer?," I asked.
"Yes, but better that person that you."
This is supposed to be just a short-term solution. In the meanwhile, the behaviorist recommended that I slowly desensitize Loki to nail trims. Yikkes! I’ve tried that before without success. The behaviorist tried to encourage me, saying that Loki’s tolerance might be greater now than before. Personally, I’m not convinced. Aren’t things like that supposed to be easier when they are pups? Why in the world would it be easier when he’s older? I’m ready to find a professional to do Loki’s nails as a permanent solution, rather than a temporary one.
The Dog Behaviorist
The session with the dog behaviorist was amazingly informative. I feel so much more empowered to handle and resolve Loki's aggression issues. She came promptly on time and stayed for about 2.5 hours. Prior to her arrival, I had carefully written out all of our concerns, questions, and the entire history of behavior as best as I could remember. I wanted to make sure that I got the most out of our session, so I compiled my list ahead of time.
She spent the first half of our session simply asking questions. She gathered as much information as she could. Then she looked at all of the information and gave us her assessment.
She spent the first half of our session simply asking questions. She gathered as much information as she could. Then she looked at all of the information and gave us her assessment.
We had two main issues:
- Loki’s aggression directed at us, his owners.
- Canine rivalry between the two dogs.
Our major breakthrough revelation came when the behaviorist told us that all of Loki’s aggression toward us involved handling. Thus, it wasn’t dominance aggression, but rather fear-based aggression. One of the ways she determined the difference was by asking us if he ever displayed signs of aggression from a distance. It was a question I never expected and never thought of. I answered, no. His aggression towards us was never from a distance, it always involved us physically handling him in one way or another.
It’s a very subtle distinction. For instance, Loki can sometimes get aggressive if you want to get him off the couch. This starts to sound like dominance aggression. But he doesn’t guard the couch as his own and growl at you to stay away from a distance. In fact, we can easily sit right next to him with no problem. The only time he gets aggressive is when we physically touch him with our hands to get him off the couch. Perhaps we would've never been able to figure out the difference between dominance and fear without someone asking the right questions. I would have never thought on my own to mention the fact that he doesn’t display any aggression from a distance. Asking the right questions is important. If you are looking for a dog behaviorist, make sure that the person asks you lots of questions. Be wary of someone who starts giving an assessment too early.
As for the canine rivalry, she told us that Loki was alpha between the two dogs; hence we should treat him as that. I didn’t realize that he was alpha and thought that Jujube had plenty of alpha tendencies. But the behaviorist told us that from all the information we told her, Loki was the alpha. He was here first. He was the one starting fights and giving her warning signs to back off. He was the one trying to dominate her. And although she is a bit aloof and does her own thing without regard for Loki, she does not try to dominate him.
Choosing a good behaviorist is very difficult. We didn’t want to pay lots of money for someone to tell us something we already knew, or worse, tell us things that are wrong. As for the behaviorist we ultimately chose, the money we spent was completely worth it.
I'm not smiling
Here's a picture of Loki. He's not smiling. He might not be fully lifting his lips, but he's not happy. I've gotten pretty good about reading his body language. Sometimes I'm surprised when other people can't read a dog's body language. So here's an example of a somewhat subtle warning.
Update on scuffles
It's now been about two months since introducing Jujube into our home. We have only had one more fight. I think that brings the total to six scuffles. The lack of posts on fights was not because I stopped reporting them. It's because we've been at peace. Yay!
Our most recent fight was over rawhide. We think it must have been the case that the pieces were too unequal, so one finished before the other. No one was there when the fight started, so we're not exactly sure what happened. Prior to that fight, we had peace with rawhide times. And afterwards, we've also had peace with rawhide times.
The reason I want to emphasize the fact that we've been at peace is because I recently learned that at least one of my readers thought that I just stopped reporting the fights.
Our most recent fight was over rawhide. We think it must have been the case that the pieces were too unequal, so one finished before the other. No one was there when the fight started, so we're not exactly sure what happened. Prior to that fight, we had peace with rawhide times. And afterwards, we've also had peace with rawhide times.
The reason I want to emphasize the fact that we've been at peace is because I recently learned that at least one of my readers thought that I just stopped reporting the fights.
Making progress on having two dogs
We’ve had Jujube for over three weeks now, and not a fight in a week and a half. Yay!
Jujube has learned Loki’s triggers, and Loki has learned to give fair warning. He mainly seems to be territorial -- he controls his space and doesn’t let her pass. For instance, Loki loves to sit at the top of the stairs and won’t let her pass. She sits pitifully in the middle of the staircase and whines. He also will claim doorway space, like the doorway between the kitchen and the dining room. Jujube has now learned that she can’t go pass him, she goes all the way around him. Sometimes they contest the front door mat. They don’t fight over it, but they will sort of verbally argue. I’m not sure how to describe it. It’s a combination of barks, whines, and shiba-talking. Lastly, he really hates it when she steps over him or on him. This will provoke a warning snap. I know, snapping isn’t a good thing, but at least it’s a warning and not a bite.
We originally thought that Jujube would end up being more dominant over Loki. She has plenty of alpha traits; she seems like more of a natural alpha to us. For instance, on all of our walks, she is up front 100% of the time. And not only does she like to be in front, but front and center. It took me awhile to teach her to not walk into me and to not charge on ahead of me. Loki, on the other hand, is always lagging behind both of us. Jujube is always curious, confident, and without fear. She demands attention. And she claims the bed. (Interestingly enough, Loki doesn’t claim the bed at all.) In fact, she’ll literally walk all over us on the bed. She doesn’t care. She does what she wants. She never follows Loki. She’ll follow us like she’s our shadow, but she never follows Loki.
Although Jujube may exhibit these sorts of alpha traits, she is not territorial; Loki is, and being territorial is also an alpha trait.
When they wrestle, they take turns humping each other. There’s no clear winner in that battle. So, that doesn’t give us a clue about who’s on top.
In the end, Loki’s aggressive and Jujube is not. So she just learns to avoid his triggers and in that sense, he gets to be more controlling, more of the alpha.
We decided that if there’s no fight or attack, there’s no need for us to step in and intervene. I think it kind of sucks for her that Loki’s her gatekeeper, but I’m not going to intervene. If this is how they keep the peace, this is how they keep the peace.
Jujube has learned Loki’s triggers, and Loki has learned to give fair warning. He mainly seems to be territorial -- he controls his space and doesn’t let her pass. For instance, Loki loves to sit at the top of the stairs and won’t let her pass. She sits pitifully in the middle of the staircase and whines. He also will claim doorway space, like the doorway between the kitchen and the dining room. Jujube has now learned that she can’t go pass him, she goes all the way around him. Sometimes they contest the front door mat. They don’t fight over it, but they will sort of verbally argue. I’m not sure how to describe it. It’s a combination of barks, whines, and shiba-talking. Lastly, he really hates it when she steps over him or on him. This will provoke a warning snap. I know, snapping isn’t a good thing, but at least it’s a warning and not a bite.
We originally thought that Jujube would end up being more dominant over Loki. She has plenty of alpha traits; she seems like more of a natural alpha to us. For instance, on all of our walks, she is up front 100% of the time. And not only does she like to be in front, but front and center. It took me awhile to teach her to not walk into me and to not charge on ahead of me. Loki, on the other hand, is always lagging behind both of us. Jujube is always curious, confident, and without fear. She demands attention. And she claims the bed. (Interestingly enough, Loki doesn’t claim the bed at all.) In fact, she’ll literally walk all over us on the bed. She doesn’t care. She does what she wants. She never follows Loki. She’ll follow us like she’s our shadow, but she never follows Loki.
Although Jujube may exhibit these sorts of alpha traits, she is not territorial; Loki is, and being territorial is also an alpha trait.
When they wrestle, they take turns humping each other. There’s no clear winner in that battle. So, that doesn’t give us a clue about who’s on top.
In the end, Loki’s aggressive and Jujube is not. So she just learns to avoid his triggers and in that sense, he gets to be more controlling, more of the alpha.
We decided that if there’s no fight or attack, there’s no need for us to step in and intervene. I think it kind of sucks for her that Loki’s her gatekeeper, but I’m not going to intervene. If this is how they keep the peace, this is how they keep the peace.
Fourth & Fifth Scuffle
I'm wondering if I should stop counting the fights. It'll be embarrassing if I get up to number 50 or something ridiculous on this blog.
We had over a week of peace, and then two fights within 24 hours. What gives? Maybe I was hoping for too much too soon. Maybe my expectations were unrealistic.
I broke up the last fight they had. I had never broken up a fight before; Yun broke up all the previous ones. It took me a lot longer to break it up than Yun. It lasted like 10 seconds. I ended up using a pillow to wedge between them. And then I squished Loki against the bed with the pillow. For whatever reason, this worked to snap him out of it and calm him down. It worked better than our typical "relax" command. In about 2-3 minutes after the fight broke up, everyone was fine. Jujube had a smile on her face. Loki was lying on his back ready for belly rubs. Yun was fine. But I was still a nervous wreck! It took me awhile to recover. I sustained no physical damage, just mental. This is opposite of Yun, the last fight he broke up, he sustained physical damage, but no mental.
[Disclaimer: I am merely reporting what I did. I am not advising or suggesting that anyone to use a pillow as a way to break up a dog fight. I'm not a dog expert.]
Other than our scuffles, the two dogs are great together. They love to play with each other. They wrestle. And most recently, they have started to lick each other. It's so cute. Loki flinches away when she tries to lick him. And he licks her too!
After fights, we try not to really separate them. Well, wait, let me re-phrase. We try to minimize the separation to only what we think is necessary. If Loki is still showing signs of aggression, then we do separate. But if he completely does snap out of it like this last fight, then we don't. We think it's best to minimize the separation, because separation appears to build up tension and frustration between the two.
I can't really figure out what triggers these fights. I just don't get it. Well, the first two were obvious - toy aggression and possessiveness over the couch. But the rest have been a puzzle. I've no clue what the triggers are, which is very frustrating.
They don't seem to do any major damage, though blood was drawn at least once. And after we break up every fight, Jujube always wimpers and limps. At first we were concerned about the limping, but then like 5 minutes later, she'll be running around like nothing happened. I don't get it. Maybe it's a strategy to show the other dog that she's hurt, so he'll stop attacking.
We had over a week of peace, and then two fights within 24 hours. What gives? Maybe I was hoping for too much too soon. Maybe my expectations were unrealistic.
I broke up the last fight they had. I had never broken up a fight before; Yun broke up all the previous ones. It took me a lot longer to break it up than Yun. It lasted like 10 seconds. I ended up using a pillow to wedge between them. And then I squished Loki against the bed with the pillow. For whatever reason, this worked to snap him out of it and calm him down. It worked better than our typical "relax" command. In about 2-3 minutes after the fight broke up, everyone was fine. Jujube had a smile on her face. Loki was lying on his back ready for belly rubs. Yun was fine. But I was still a nervous wreck! It took me awhile to recover. I sustained no physical damage, just mental. This is opposite of Yun, the last fight he broke up, he sustained physical damage, but no mental.
[Disclaimer: I am merely reporting what I did. I am not advising or suggesting that anyone to use a pillow as a way to break up a dog fight. I'm not a dog expert.]
Other than our scuffles, the two dogs are great together. They love to play with each other. They wrestle. And most recently, they have started to lick each other. It's so cute. Loki flinches away when she tries to lick him. And he licks her too!
After fights, we try not to really separate them. Well, wait, let me re-phrase. We try to minimize the separation to only what we think is necessary. If Loki is still showing signs of aggression, then we do separate. But if he completely does snap out of it like this last fight, then we don't. We think it's best to minimize the separation, because separation appears to build up tension and frustration between the two.
I can't really figure out what triggers these fights. I just don't get it. Well, the first two were obvious - toy aggression and possessiveness over the couch. But the rest have been a puzzle. I've no clue what the triggers are, which is very frustrating.
They don't seem to do any major damage, though blood was drawn at least once. And after we break up every fight, Jujube always wimpers and limps. At first we were concerned about the limping, but then like 5 minutes later, she'll be running around like nothing happened. I don't get it. Maybe it's a strategy to show the other dog that she's hurt, so he'll stop attacking.
Third Scuffle
Yikes! We had our third scuffle last night. Neither one of us was in the room when it happened. The dogs were in the bedroom and the humans momentarily went to discuss the plumbing in our master bathroom.
Boo... I hope this gets better soon.
They seem to get over their fights relatively quickly. It doesn't take too long before they are back to being playmates. They like to wrestle. Jujube sticks her butt in Loki's face to solicit play. He tries to hump her, and then she shakes him off. She's very good at using her butt as a weapon. Loki... not so much. Loki's more pawsy.
Boo... I hope this gets better soon.
They seem to get over their fights relatively quickly. It doesn't take too long before they are back to being playmates. They like to wrestle. Jujube sticks her butt in Loki's face to solicit play. He tries to hump her, and then she shakes him off. She's very good at using her butt as a weapon. Loki... not so much. Loki's more pawsy.
Second Scuffle
We had our second scuffle the evening on the same day as the first scuffle. Juju tried to jump on the couch... that is, what Loki perceives to be HIS couch. And apparently, Loki attacked her. Again, I wasn't in the room at the time. Yun already broke it up by the time I got there. All in all, these fights don't last more than 5 seconds.
Loki is being very territorial and possessive. We call it the only child syndrome. He doesn't know how to share anything. I don't think it's exactly a heirarchy issue; it's not exactly dominance. He's not being dominant. We assess his behavior to be more unbalanced and neurotic. Not dominant. Dominance would be if he claimed his space and asserted himself so that she gets off the couch. In these scuffles, he is just plain attacking. Juju doesn't challenge him back. She may defend, but she's the one to back off. She doesn't want to fight. If it were dominance, then wouldn't the attack end as soon as the other one displays submission?
We decided that the couch is now off limits entire to Loki. We have to establish the fact that the couch does not belong to him. For now, we decided to enforce the rule for a month. Then we'll reassess the situation.
We think that he's being more aggressive today rather than when he first met her because he's starting to understand that the "visitor" status is now permanent. His socialization with dogs previously has always been in the context of visitors -- a temporary playmate. And he's pretty good with a temporary playmate. The two of them did play the first night. But now I think he's starting to understand that the new visitor isn't temporary.
Our solution so far is to put Loki in the exercise pen. He's the one being locked up and punished, because he's the bully. But I wonder if that will make things worse. I'm not sure. If you believe in pack heirarchy, we are effectively telling Loki that Juju is higher on the totem pole than he is. Will that make him want to challenge her more? Are we setting them up for more fights in the future? But on the other hand, how can we not punish him? We can't ignore or condone the fact that he is the one attacking.
I am trying to remain optimistic. It is a bit emotionally difficult. The really nice thing though is that so far Juju has displayed absolutely no signs of aggression.
Loki is being very territorial and possessive. We call it the only child syndrome. He doesn't know how to share anything. I don't think it's exactly a heirarchy issue; it's not exactly dominance. He's not being dominant. We assess his behavior to be more unbalanced and neurotic. Not dominant. Dominance would be if he claimed his space and asserted himself so that she gets off the couch. In these scuffles, he is just plain attacking. Juju doesn't challenge him back. She may defend, but she's the one to back off. She doesn't want to fight. If it were dominance, then wouldn't the attack end as soon as the other one displays submission?
We decided that the couch is now off limits entire to Loki. We have to establish the fact that the couch does not belong to him. For now, we decided to enforce the rule for a month. Then we'll reassess the situation.
We think that he's being more aggressive today rather than when he first met her because he's starting to understand that the "visitor" status is now permanent. His socialization with dogs previously has always been in the context of visitors -- a temporary playmate. And he's pretty good with a temporary playmate. The two of them did play the first night. But now I think he's starting to understand that the new visitor isn't temporary.
Our solution so far is to put Loki in the exercise pen. He's the one being locked up and punished, because he's the bully. But I wonder if that will make things worse. I'm not sure. If you believe in pack heirarchy, we are effectively telling Loki that Juju is higher on the totem pole than he is. Will that make him want to challenge her more? Are we setting them up for more fights in the future? But on the other hand, how can we not punish him? We can't ignore or condone the fact that he is the one attacking.
I am trying to remain optimistic. It is a bit emotionally difficult. The really nice thing though is that so far Juju has displayed absolutely no signs of aggression.
Scuffle
We had our first scuffle the morning after we got Jujube. It wasn't over food. Breakfast time went okay. Not perfect, but okay. The scuffle was over a ball. I think I forgot to warn Yun that toys can be a source of aggression. I was on the phone with my mom when all of a sudden I heard some serious screaming and yelping. I quickly hung up with my mom and ran upstairs. By then Yun already broke up the fight.
I put Loki into a "relax" command, while Yun checked Juju all over to make sure that she was okay. (Relax is what we interpret to be an alpha roll. We've trained him to obey that command, so he just lies on his side with his head on the ground.) She wasn't hurt.
The scuffle was over a ball. Yun was tossing a ball for them, when Loki decided to lash out at Juju. Yes, not a good idea. But I forgot to warn Yun about that.
I put Loki into a "relax" command, while Yun checked Juju all over to make sure that she was okay. (Relax is what we interpret to be an alpha roll. We've trained him to obey that command, so he just lies on his side with his head on the ground.) She wasn't hurt.
The scuffle was over a ball. Yun was tossing a ball for them, when Loki decided to lash out at Juju. Yes, not a good idea. But I forgot to warn Yun about that.
Showing teeth picture contest
Over in the Dogster world, the Shiba Inu forum holds bi-monthly picture contests. Loki won second place for the Showing Teeth contest. Here was our picture entry:
I said, stick 'em up!
You can view all the contest entries here.
Of all the picture category contests, this is the one that Loki excels in.
Response to "Does he bite?" Comments
Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions.
I'm sure that there are plenty of shibas that do not display such behavior at all. If you have such a well-tempered dog, just be glad and don't press your luck.
The Dog Whisperer episode that some of you were referring to was "Marley and Piper" in Season 4. I actually haven't watched the whole episode yet, but I saw a clip of it on You Tube. I hope to catch the entire episode during re-runs.
As for the comment about not taking bites personally, I know this rationally. However, not taking it personally is difficult for me, as I bet it's difficult for most dog owners. I try my best, but I don't always succeed. The ironic thing is that the more frequently he bites me, the better I get at not taking it personally. I bet I'd be pretty good at not taking it personally if I've been bitten as many times as Cesar Millan has.
As for the comment about picking my battles, I'm now trying that. I'm not entirely convinced that it's the best course of action. The way I see it, a dog owner should have full control of her dog under any and all circumstances. Whether it be removing a chicken bone from his mouth, tending to dangling poop, or cutting nails. But in light of the fact that I know I will get bitten, maybe it's not worth it to insist so heavily on a "perfect" dog, or at least not a perfect dog immediately. Today, Loki found a small piece of hamburger on the ground. I let him have it. It wasn't going to hurt him like a chicken bone might. So I decided to pick my battles and this wasn't one of them.
Regarding the comments about how Loki is still young and in adolescence, I think you are absolutely right. He has yet to fully trust us, and I'm slowly working on that. His behavior goes in waves: sometimes an angel and sometimes a devil. I think part of me was hoping that because we were on an angel wave for so long that maybe he was done with his adolescence. But that was silly wishful thinking.
Lastly, I did watch a couple YouTube clips of the SATZ method, which I've never heard of before. It seems very similar to clicker training, which Loki and I learned last summer. The one thing she did that I may try more of is talking to Loki. He's much smarter at picking up human vocabulary than I thought. Cesar Millan never uses words or encourages the use of words, because he says they don't understand. But Loki definitely learns certain words (like treat, walk, and sorry) even without us actively teaching him. I'm sure he can pick up more words as long as I use them consistently.
I'm sure that there are plenty of shibas that do not display such behavior at all. If you have such a well-tempered dog, just be glad and don't press your luck.
The Dog Whisperer episode that some of you were referring to was "Marley and Piper" in Season 4. I actually haven't watched the whole episode yet, but I saw a clip of it on You Tube. I hope to catch the entire episode during re-runs.
As for the comment about not taking bites personally, I know this rationally. However, not taking it personally is difficult for me, as I bet it's difficult for most dog owners. I try my best, but I don't always succeed. The ironic thing is that the more frequently he bites me, the better I get at not taking it personally. I bet I'd be pretty good at not taking it personally if I've been bitten as many times as Cesar Millan has.
As for the comment about picking my battles, I'm now trying that. I'm not entirely convinced that it's the best course of action. The way I see it, a dog owner should have full control of her dog under any and all circumstances. Whether it be removing a chicken bone from his mouth, tending to dangling poop, or cutting nails. But in light of the fact that I know I will get bitten, maybe it's not worth it to insist so heavily on a "perfect" dog, or at least not a perfect dog immediately. Today, Loki found a small piece of hamburger on the ground. I let him have it. It wasn't going to hurt him like a chicken bone might. So I decided to pick my battles and this wasn't one of them.
Regarding the comments about how Loki is still young and in adolescence, I think you are absolutely right. He has yet to fully trust us, and I'm slowly working on that. His behavior goes in waves: sometimes an angel and sometimes a devil. I think part of me was hoping that because we were on an angel wave for so long that maybe he was done with his adolescence. But that was silly wishful thinking.
Lastly, I did watch a couple YouTube clips of the SATZ method, which I've never heard of before. It seems very similar to clicker training, which Loki and I learned last summer. The one thing she did that I may try more of is talking to Loki. He's much smarter at picking up human vocabulary than I thought. Cesar Millan never uses words or encourages the use of words, because he says they don't understand. But Loki definitely learns certain words (like treat, walk, and sorry) even without us actively teaching him. I'm sure he can pick up more words as long as I use them consistently.
Does he bite?
A common question from strangers is, "Does he bite?" It's a hard question for me to answer, because the real answer is, "Yes, under certain circumstances, but despite that fact, you can't approach him with any fear."
Loki's behavior really started to become better from about 1 - 1.5 years old. The last time Loki bit me was in January. (I was trying to take a chicken bone from his mouth. He had randomly found it during our walk.) After the incident in January, I thought his biting days were all in the past. The reason for the decrease in bites wasn't only attributable to his better temperament, but also to the fact that we better learned what his warning signs were and what his triggers were.
Unfortunately, I let my guard down or perhaps I was simply in denial about his temperament. Last Thursday he bit me for the first time since January. Here's what happened:
The reality is that Loki does bite and lashes out when he feels threatened. Honestly, I really wish I had a dog that never bit or showed any aggressive behavior. Other dogs cower, whimper, and whine under stressful and challenging situations. I keep wishing that Loki could be that kind of dog, but I don't think that he ever will.
I certainly try my best in training him to behave better. I have been successful in identifying certain triggers and finding solutions for them. For instance, we muzzle him when we do his nails. I used slow positive reinforcement to teach him to accept the harness, which he is very good about now. He still doesn't like it, but he accepts it. And currently, I'm doing more handling exercises with positive reinforcement. But I am starting to think that even with all the training in the world, Loki will still lash out if he feels threatened. Training with positive reinforcement only teaches him that certain triggers aren't threatening. It doesn't teach him to never lash out.
This blog entry is difficult to write, because I feel that there is a certain amount of judgment that is placed on an owner of such a dog... almost as if it were my fault for his behavior. I remember one day a year ago when I was out walking Loki and I told a ten year old girl to be cautious around Loki. She turned away from us and asked a nearby elderly man if his two Pomeranians bit. The elderly man replied, oh, no, never ever, they would never hurt a fly. I felt bad about not being able to say the same about Loki.
Whenever I search online, it's hard to find any useful information about dogs and biting. Google only brings up legal site after legal site informing people how to sue and sad news story after sad news story. There was one article that I was very happy to read on a Shiba Rescue site: Shibas and Biting by Carolyn Sanford. The lines that resonated the most with me were:
Loki's behavior really started to become better from about 1 - 1.5 years old. The last time Loki bit me was in January. (I was trying to take a chicken bone from his mouth. He had randomly found it during our walk.) After the incident in January, I thought his biting days were all in the past. The reason for the decrease in bites wasn't only attributable to his better temperament, but also to the fact that we better learned what his warning signs were and what his triggers were.
Unfortunately, I let my guard down or perhaps I was simply in denial about his temperament. Last Thursday he bit me for the first time since January. Here's what happened:
It started as a normal day for Loki & I, as I took him to poop. Unfortunately, it was one of those days where his poop was dangling on a long strand of my hair from his butt. (I have long hair; it drops everywhere.) He was successful in flinging the poop off by running around in circles like mad. But the strand of hair was still there. Uh-oh.
So I calmly got him to stay standing and pulled one strand out. Then I noticed another shorter strand. I suppose I was feeling empowered because I got the first strand out okay. But he put up a huge fight when I tried to get that second stand, and got bitten on my finger. I didn't even know I was bleeding until I saw the blood on his fur.
An acquaintance passed by during the incident and commented that perhaps it was hurting him inside when I tugged at the hair. I don't know if that was the case or not, but I gave up on trying to pull it out. Anyways, the issue resolved itself the next time he went to poop.
The reality is that Loki does bite and lashes out when he feels threatened. Honestly, I really wish I had a dog that never bit or showed any aggressive behavior. Other dogs cower, whimper, and whine under stressful and challenging situations. I keep wishing that Loki could be that kind of dog, but I don't think that he ever will.
I certainly try my best in training him to behave better. I have been successful in identifying certain triggers and finding solutions for them. For instance, we muzzle him when we do his nails. I used slow positive reinforcement to teach him to accept the harness, which he is very good about now. He still doesn't like it, but he accepts it. And currently, I'm doing more handling exercises with positive reinforcement. But I am starting to think that even with all the training in the world, Loki will still lash out if he feels threatened. Training with positive reinforcement only teaches him that certain triggers aren't threatening. It doesn't teach him to never lash out.
This blog entry is difficult to write, because I feel that there is a certain amount of judgment that is placed on an owner of such a dog... almost as if it were my fault for his behavior. I remember one day a year ago when I was out walking Loki and I told a ten year old girl to be cautious around Loki. She turned away from us and asked a nearby elderly man if his two Pomeranians bit. The elderly man replied, oh, no, never ever, they would never hurt a fly. I felt bad about not being able to say the same about Loki.
Whenever I search online, it's hard to find any useful information about dogs and biting. Google only brings up legal site after legal site informing people how to sue and sad news story after sad news story. There was one article that I was very happy to read on a Shiba Rescue site: Shibas and Biting by Carolyn Sanford. The lines that resonated the most with me were:
"Because a Shiba was purchased from a reputable breeder who did everything right, bred for temperament, socialized, trained, doesn't insure that Shiba will never feel a need to lash out if it feels threatened whether the threat is real or imagined.In the end, yes, Loki does bite. Even if he is very mellow, well-behaved, and calm about 90% of the time, under certain circumstances, Loki is not afraid to lash out. This is the reality of owning Loki.
...
Not addressing this aspect of owning a Shiba would be a disservice to the breed as a whole. Not acknowledging the potential for this 'reality' exists, and not educating owners or prospective owners of the possibilities does nothing to protect the breed or individual Shibas. Does acknowledging this problem exists in the Shiba breed mean it's a trait? No, but being realistic about the potential and acknowledging possibilities exist through the life of any Shiba may help to control the number of incidents and the public assuming this is a trait."
More success at the dog park
Yay! We had a successful time in the main area of the dog park! I'm so glad.
First, I made sure that we had a long walk early this afternoon to drain some of his energy. It took about two hours in total, but that includes stopping for lunch.
When we first got to the dog park, I put him in the small dog section. All the other dogs were in the main area, so Loki was all by himself. He sniffed a couple dogs by the fence and ran along it too. I noticed that all the dogs in the main area were pretty calm and well-behaved.
Only because all of the other dogs seemed so calm, I decided to bring Loki to the main area. No dog came up to greet us when we first entered - a good sign. I took Loki to the water fountain and then ran over to a more secluded corner of the park. Then, I threw some tennis balls around for him to chase. Loki was very well-behaved when greeting a couple dogs and ran around for a little bit with one. We mostly stayed away from the main cluster of dogs and people and kept to ourselves. It was a good day =)
First, I made sure that we had a long walk early this afternoon to drain some of his energy. It took about two hours in total, but that includes stopping for lunch.
When we first got to the dog park, I put him in the small dog section. All the other dogs were in the main area, so Loki was all by himself. He sniffed a couple dogs by the fence and ran along it too. I noticed that all the dogs in the main area were pretty calm and well-behaved.
Only because all of the other dogs seemed so calm, I decided to bring Loki to the main area. No dog came up to greet us when we first entered - a good sign. I took Loki to the water fountain and then ran over to a more secluded corner of the park. Then, I threw some tennis balls around for him to chase. Loki was very well-behaved when greeting a couple dogs and ran around for a little bit with one. We mostly stayed away from the main cluster of dogs and people and kept to ourselves. It was a good day =)
Success with Small Dogs
Yay! Today we had a fun-filled time with three small dogs.
First, I took Loki for a brisk walk around the park, while I was on rollerblades. Then after getting some of that energy out of his system, I took him to the small dog section. To my surprise, there were three dogs in the small dog section - a corgi, a chihuahua, and a pomeranian. I was a bit hesitant, but Loki's pretty comfortable around dogs smaller than him. And he played wonderfully with them. He played the most with the Corgi, who was a submissive female. Very submissive. Loki tried to hump the Corgi a couple times and she just rolled over on to her back. Yay for a successful day at the dog park.
First, I took Loki for a brisk walk around the park, while I was on rollerblades. Then after getting some of that energy out of his system, I took him to the small dog section. To my surprise, there were three dogs in the small dog section - a corgi, a chihuahua, and a pomeranian. I was a bit hesitant, but Loki's pretty comfortable around dogs smaller than him. And he played wonderfully with them. He played the most with the Corgi, who was a submissive female. Very submissive. Loki tried to hump the Corgi a couple times and she just rolled over on to her back. Yay for a successful day at the dog park.
Quarantined
Determined not to let our bad experience ruin all future dog park excursions, I took him back to the dog park today and put him in the small dog section. Since no one ever uses the small dog section, he was essentially quarantined. We stayed for about an hour or so. He got to sniff dogs through the fence and run along side it. I also played fetch (yes, I was the one fetching) and ran around with him. Loki's behavior was fairly calm and normal. Aside from his apparent desire to be in the main area, he was happy.
I thought that there would be fewer dogs today, since it was a Monday. But, no. There were plenty of dogs this afternoon. I think I'll try going to the dog park daily (or as much as possible). If there are only one or two dogs, I'll go in the main area. Otherwise, we'll try the quarantine. I hope that works.
I think the dog fights must have traumatized him. His behavior has completely regressed. He was doing really well for almost half a year now. But in these past couple days, he's been very snappy. He's not afraid to express the fact that he does NOT like being picked up or handled. He even gets snappy when you just pet him! Admittedly, I'm a bit more cautious about touching him in any way, and I'm sure that he can sense my negative energy.
I try to remind myself that sometimes unfortunate situations occur, and his bad behavior can be corrected. It just takes some time and patience. Still, I'm a bit heartbroken by how snappy he is toward me.
I thought that there would be fewer dogs today, since it was a Monday. But, no. There were plenty of dogs this afternoon. I think I'll try going to the dog park daily (or as much as possible). If there are only one or two dogs, I'll go in the main area. Otherwise, we'll try the quarantine. I hope that works.
I think the dog fights must have traumatized him. His behavior has completely regressed. He was doing really well for almost half a year now. But in these past couple days, he's been very snappy. He's not afraid to express the fact that he does NOT like being picked up or handled. He even gets snappy when you just pet him! Admittedly, I'm a bit more cautious about touching him in any way, and I'm sure that he can sense my negative energy.
I try to remind myself that sometimes unfortunate situations occur, and his bad behavior can be corrected. It just takes some time and patience. Still, I'm a bit heartbroken by how snappy he is toward me.
Dog Fight
After a full year of going to the dog park at a rate of once a week without any incident, I'm sad to say that he got into a fight yesterday. I'm not sure what kind of dog the other one was. It was larger, stocky, and more muscular. Maybe a boxer or a pitbull. No one was seriously hurt.
I didn't want that incident to discourage us from going back to the dog park, so I took him there again today. Big mistake! As soon as Loki entered, he was nervous about every single dog that sniffed him. And not five minutes passed before Loki started a big fight. It wasn't even with one dog in particular. He was just snapping at every dog around him; it didn't matter what dog it was. After making sure that no one was hurt, we promptly left.
I'm not sure if I handled it entirely correctly. I just leashed him and left. Yun thinks that I should have kept him on leash, but remained in the dog park. Or maybe I should have alpha rolled him there. I'm not sure what would have been the best way to handle it -- I never had to deal with it before. I was shocked, frustrated, and also saddened.
I felt like we spent so much time trying to properly socialize him so that he wouldn't be dog aggressive. Always going to the dog park every weekend. And now, what a setback! Sigh.
I didn't want that incident to discourage us from going back to the dog park, so I took him there again today. Big mistake! As soon as Loki entered, he was nervous about every single dog that sniffed him. And not five minutes passed before Loki started a big fight. It wasn't even with one dog in particular. He was just snapping at every dog around him; it didn't matter what dog it was. After making sure that no one was hurt, we promptly left.
I'm not sure if I handled it entirely correctly. I just leashed him and left. Yun thinks that I should have kept him on leash, but remained in the dog park. Or maybe I should have alpha rolled him there. I'm not sure what would have been the best way to handle it -- I never had to deal with it before. I was shocked, frustrated, and also saddened.
I felt like we spent so much time trying to properly socialize him so that he wouldn't be dog aggressive. Always going to the dog park every weekend. And now, what a setback! Sigh.
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